Yesterday’s horrific attack on Salman Rushdie in New York has been met with a barrage of support and solidarity. Few today would dare utter the pathetic “yes but” apologetics which marred his initial hounding by angry mobs. No one, surely, would go on Question Time now, as Shirley Williams once did to claim that he “offended Muslims” and made himself a burden on the state by doing so.
“The moment you say that any idea system is sacred, whether it’s a religious belief system or a secular ideology, the moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible.”
Unfortunately I just don’t think most of our politicians have that kind of courage. In the end, we need to make it unbearable for politicians to ignore the cultural problems.
Here in the US, talking about Muslim extremism is still a ‘no-go’, except for those on the ‘fringy’ right.
It’s just not mainstream unless you are talking about how much you support the military going into Middle Eastern countries to put Muslim extremists down. But there’s no discussion about how Muslim immigration here has brought a lot of censorship or other bad into our society as well.
It’s usually just a news story about honor killings or FGM that blends into the background of the rest of the noise. I care about these issues, because as a woman, I don’t want to see other women living here oppressed or harmed. However, Americans are really weird with the cultural stuff because we really don’t like to tell others that their cultural heritage is wrong or bad and needs to change. It’s really an odd thing because America is built on ideas, not one specific culture, like being British or French or Spanish, but lots of different. It’s built into the sauce that we are a blend of different cultures. Ideally, we try to take the good from all cultures. But refusing to point out that the bad from some cultures is really bad and just unacceptable is really destroying the good. To me, a lot of this just shows me that integration isn’t working because we simply don’t make it a priority to control our borders and defend our cultural values.
Honestly, This topic gets more time on Triggernometry than any of other secular media outlets I pay attention to and I pay attention and have a clue about what the MSM is highlighting in their coverage. These stories are always buried, if they are covered at all. It’s never front page news, unless it’s a terror attack like this. Religious conservatives continue to talk about it a lot. They’ve been talking about it since before 9/11, but given their identity and that their identity isn’t worth much on the Progressive pyramid of oppression, these conversations don’t hit mainstream circles. I stopped listening to one of the local Christian show hosts years ago because he just wouldn’t shut up about this topic. I understand why the conversation is needed, but preaching to the choir only gets you so far in solving the actual problem.
It’s just sick and sad what happened to Rushdie. I really appreciated your RAW show yesterday. You and FF were dropping a lot of honesty and truth and we need more of that, not less.
You are absolutely right. We need a full and open discussion in this country about the role and future of Islam here. No obfuscation such as "moderate'' or "extreme''. We need to fully discuss the role that Sharia will have (if any) in this country, the role of Muslim councils and everything that Islam entails. People may not like it, those in charge certainly won't, but this is a discussion that must be had if we are going to have any semblence of order and security in this country in the future.
Well said Konstantin. It starts with our leaders, goes through their political parties, is embraced by all of the media, the universities, etc. They can’t kill us all.
If history were to be our guide to immigration policy, we would ask if there has ever a single nation anywhere on this planet that has benefited in any way from Muslim immigration.
Old Fashioned totalitarians created the model for New Fashioned totalitarians. If things continue along their current lines, how long will it be before mandatory incarceration be ordered for parents opposed to gender 'modification' of their own children? Evil is never satisfied with the status quo.
My first response to the UK PM statement on this terrible incident last night: nice, but what does it actually mean? What is going to be done? More platitudes I fear. The role and extent of taxation still dominates the conversations over and above what kind of country we have inherited, live in now, and want to bequeath to our children.
Either our precious and precarious values embodied in a novelist (who I admit I do not read and don't particularly follow) but value on principle; or radical political Islamism determined to crush our values?
First British politician / party to as you say, to put their head high and consistently over that illiberal stoking of fear of racism parapet, (parading as liberal equality but silencing all with fear) in the coming weeks, months and years with a platform for our modern societies freedoms and boundaries….gets a fair hearing from me.
Not holding my breath. Looks set to continue.
As for the United States: it is, now, at the sharp end of its Life, Liberty and Freedom of Speech project. That Constitution they have, coupled with Federalism, is their key forward.
“The moment you say that any idea system is sacred, whether it’s a religious belief system or a secular ideology, the moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible.”
― Salman Rushdie
Unfortunately I just don’t think most of our politicians have that kind of courage. In the end, we need to make it unbearable for politicians to ignore the cultural problems.
Here in the US, talking about Muslim extremism is still a ‘no-go’, except for those on the ‘fringy’ right.
It’s just not mainstream unless you are talking about how much you support the military going into Middle Eastern countries to put Muslim extremists down. But there’s no discussion about how Muslim immigration here has brought a lot of censorship or other bad into our society as well.
It’s usually just a news story about honor killings or FGM that blends into the background of the rest of the noise. I care about these issues, because as a woman, I don’t want to see other women living here oppressed or harmed. However, Americans are really weird with the cultural stuff because we really don’t like to tell others that their cultural heritage is wrong or bad and needs to change. It’s really an odd thing because America is built on ideas, not one specific culture, like being British or French or Spanish, but lots of different. It’s built into the sauce that we are a blend of different cultures. Ideally, we try to take the good from all cultures. But refusing to point out that the bad from some cultures is really bad and just unacceptable is really destroying the good. To me, a lot of this just shows me that integration isn’t working because we simply don’t make it a priority to control our borders and defend our cultural values.
Honestly, This topic gets more time on Triggernometry than any of other secular media outlets I pay attention to and I pay attention and have a clue about what the MSM is highlighting in their coverage. These stories are always buried, if they are covered at all. It’s never front page news, unless it’s a terror attack like this. Religious conservatives continue to talk about it a lot. They’ve been talking about it since before 9/11, but given their identity and that their identity isn’t worth much on the Progressive pyramid of oppression, these conversations don’t hit mainstream circles. I stopped listening to one of the local Christian show hosts years ago because he just wouldn’t shut up about this topic. I understand why the conversation is needed, but preaching to the choir only gets you so far in solving the actual problem.
It’s just sick and sad what happened to Rushdie. I really appreciated your RAW show yesterday. You and FF were dropping a lot of honesty and truth and we need more of that, not less.
"Religion of peace".
BBC News - Who is Salman Rushdie? The writer who emerged from hiding
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-62523259
Select texts from BBC's "Who is Salman Rushdie?":
"Sir Salman Rushdie has been no stranger to death threats arising due to the nature of his work."
Due to the nature of his work? Or due to the fascistic intolerance of others?
"But in the West, authors and intellectuals denounced the threat to freedom of expression posed by the violent reaction to the book."
Support was variable, not as empathic as this suggests
You are absolutely right. We need a full and open discussion in this country about the role and future of Islam here. No obfuscation such as "moderate'' or "extreme''. We need to fully discuss the role that Sharia will have (if any) in this country, the role of Muslim councils and everything that Islam entails. People may not like it, those in charge certainly won't, but this is a discussion that must be had if we are going to have any semblence of order and security in this country in the future.
Very well said. Thank you Konstantin.
Well said Konstantin. It starts with our leaders, goes through their political parties, is embraced by all of the media, the universities, etc. They can’t kill us all.
If history were to be our guide to immigration policy, we would ask if there has ever a single nation anywhere on this planet that has benefited in any way from Muslim immigration.
Old Fashioned totalitarians created the model for New Fashioned totalitarians. If things continue along their current lines, how long will it be before mandatory incarceration be ordered for parents opposed to gender 'modification' of their own children? Evil is never satisfied with the status quo.
Konstantin, perhaps you will now recognise how sick twisted and dysfunctional the west is. And now finally sliding into oblivion.
IF you're being serious, that is *exactly* the same attitude of the Islamic fundies, Russian imperialists etc
My first response to the UK PM statement on this terrible incident last night: nice, but what does it actually mean? What is going to be done? More platitudes I fear. The role and extent of taxation still dominates the conversations over and above what kind of country we have inherited, live in now, and want to bequeath to our children.
Either our precious and precarious values embodied in a novelist (who I admit I do not read and don't particularly follow) but value on principle; or radical political Islamism determined to crush our values?
First British politician / party to as you say, to put their head high and consistently over that illiberal stoking of fear of racism parapet, (parading as liberal equality but silencing all with fear) in the coming weeks, months and years with a platform for our modern societies freedoms and boundaries….gets a fair hearing from me.
Not holding my breath. Looks set to continue.
As for the United States: it is, now, at the sharp end of its Life, Liberty and Freedom of Speech project. That Constitution they have, coupled with Federalism, is their key forward.